• 

  Toadmaster

  5 days ago · Permalink

  Not all of my photos seem to be visiable in the photo section of my portfolio. Thought that they were there, now seem to have gone somewhere. Were they removed, moved, hidden or am I just being dense?
  

  View all 4 comments

  sedetweiler 5 days ago

  might have been removed by moderation if they were not appropriate. Otherwise they should be in there.
  

  Toadmaster 5 days ago

  they are back, Don't know where they went or why. Thanks!
  

  Toadmaster 5 days ago

  Now they are gone again. show up in the "default gallery" ???
  

  Toadmaster 5 days ago

  All show up in "organize your photos" default gallery. 27 of 66 show up in "photos" in my portfolio.
  I don't believe that they all could have been removed for being "inappropriate" and I was certainly not notified of any such action. Guess that I'm just being "stupid". What next?
  
• 

  missdiaz

  2 weeks ago · Permalink

  Hey not quite sure were else to find help for this but I upgraded to VIP membership about 3 days ago.. paid for and all.. got the receipt even in my email.. but my profile doesn't seem to be VIP yet. Perhaps there's some confusion.. about the payment as my paypal (which i used to pay for it) is linked to a different email address I use then the one on here.
  Any help would be appreciated! Thanks!
  

  View all 4 comments

  sedetweiler 2 weeks ago

  We can look into it and find out what went wrong. thanks for you support, and we will get onto this asap.
  

  missdiaz 2 weeks ago

  thanks sooo much! :)
  

  chilly 2 weeks ago

  Glitch in the matrix. :) I fixed the issue and gave you an extra month for free. If you run into any more issues, please let me know.
  

  missdiaz 2 weeks ago

  awee wow thanks soo much for getting it figured out. much appreciated!! :) :) :)
  
• 

  ECarter

  2 months ago · Permalink

  Could you give me a tad more info, I think im kinda slow :)
  

  sedetweiler 2 months ago

  http://www.greenmartini.com/controlpanel then click on the "your Public Site" tab. there are some options there including the custom URL.
  
• 

  ECarter

  2 months ago · Permalink

  Why are there two diffrent kinds of sites?
  

  sedetweiler 2 months ago

  One is for those that want to have a modeling or portfolio site but don't care to see the comments and other items. More of a marketing site. The other is more for networking with others. Since the marketing site can be changed to any url, people use it for their official site rather than using their gm portfolio pages.
  

  ECarter 2 months ago

  how do I change the URL?
  

  sedetweiler 2 months ago

  in your control panel.
  
• 

  ECarter

  2 months ago · Permalink

  Sedetweiler HOW do I get a site like that???
  

  sedetweiler 2 months ago

  you have one automatically. http://ecarter.greenmartini.com
  
• 

  sineann

  3 months ago · Permalink

  Is there a way to make your profile private? I'm relatively new to the site and not the most tech-savvy person out there, but my understanding is that all profiles are public and you have the ability to make public or private galleries. If there is a way to make a privacy option, to choose either a public profile or a private/members-only profile, I think it would be a great feature. I appreciate the option to have private galleries, but as someone who keeps modeling separate from my day job, I would feel much more comfortable using this site if it weren't public. Information posted in my profile, such as links to my other modeling portfolios and videos, is something I'd want treated as privately as my photos. I know a few models who do not want to join GreenMartini because of the public profiles, and I have considered deleting mine. I like everything else about the site, though .. .is there a possibility of making this happen? :)
  

  sedetweiler 3 months ago

  We could play with that idea for sure. Most of the people that model use a stage name to protect their identity from the day job. Making all of you images members-only is also an option as you mentioned above. If you are referring to "http://sineann.greenmartini.com we can set an option for you to disable that site as well. A good idea and one I will discuss with @chilly .
  

  sineann 3 months ago

  I do use a stage name, but having everything members-only would make me feel a little better knowing that my images are being kept where I want them. If you could make that option, I'd really appreciate it . . . and I know of a few others that would, too. :) Thank you!
  
• 

  chilly

  10 months ago · Permalink

  We've had a handful of members complain that our site navigation is confusing and suggest that we make it identical to MM's. While we don't particularly like MM's navigation scheme, we're not opposed to making changes in ours to make it easier for new users. Does anyone have suggestions for how we can improve ours? Feel free to comment on the organization of it, how it actually works, the design of the menus, or anything else you think is important.
  
  We appreciate your help and love you like a nerd (that's me) loves Doritos and Mt Dew. ;)
  

  View all 13 comments

  sedetweiler 10 months ago

  I like it much better than MM navigation as you can get to most places from anywhere. On MM you have to be in a specific place to do a lot of things. for users news to both, I think they would prefer this one. However since people are perhaps more used to the way MM has it, maybe they just want it to be familiar, not perhaps better?
  

  racheljay 10 months ago

  I don't think it needs to be made the same as MM's nav. People just aren't used to it, and it's different, which is likely why it's confusing. However, I would maybe see about adding text under the 4 icons at the very top (upload, mail, help and logout), as those I often find myself mousing over to remember what they are (spare the mail one, that one's pretty obvious).
  
  I do find myself wanting to look for "attention whoring" under "participate" though. Maybe link it in both places?
  
  Something that might also be worth looking into is how the menus react on a smartphone (both an iPhone and something else). I haven't been on GM on my phone, but my phone is currently the only way I can access the Internet at home. It'd be nice to be able to easily navigate on my phone, and with the dropdowns how they are, I'm not sure how that would work. FWIW, I have an iPhone4.
  

  sedetweiler 10 months ago

  i use the site on my android and my itouch and it works well. I think as well as any nav would on such a small screen. Much better than the previous way we used to have it. I was always clicking on the wrong thing before :-)
  

  chilly 10 months ago

  I've been tempted to scrap the big icons and go to a pure text approach to the navigation, which would allow more primary level options. I like the look of our icons, though, so I've held off so far. If it'd be more usable without them, however, I think we'd make the change. I think using a multi-level menu system would improve a couple aspects, like showing Explore/Photos/ and then have the different cascades (newest, hidden gems, recently viewed, etc) as a sub-menu below that. Would also work for user settings under tools, to give them faster access to port edit, port organize, control panel, etc.
  
  I really like the idea of adding text below the small icons up there. Easy enough to do and would definitely improve the usability.
  

  nickolasnikolic 10 months ago

  Try a usability test. It will point out issues.
  
  Actually get new and old users to accomplish tasks on screen in front of you.
  
  There is some confusion in the start tab. A new user probably is confused by home, your portfolio (which is basically a control panel) and then again by the control panel.
  
  I have run into a few issues and been confused.
  

  sedetweiler 10 months ago

  I have been wanting to move the preferences to the control panel for a while now, but it will be a bunch of work to do so. but I think it makes sense to have all of the options in one place.
  

  imuhstrangewon 10 months ago

  I personally don't have much of a problem. It was a bit confusing at first, after changes had been made, but of course just by spending a little bit of time on here i figured it out. I love the site. =]
  

  sedetweiler 10 months ago

  I can't wait for someone to tell us it is too confusing and to make it work like OMP. That site has one of the worst navigation systems I have ever seen.
  

  CheerleaderVideo 10 months ago

  Only having been on the site for a couple days, I'd have to say I like the Navigation. I've been on OMP since 2004, and they never seem to get it right..and they dictate. ..and folks, Model Mayhem ain't that great!
  

  dsa157 10 months ago

  Before I start tearing in with (constructive) criticism, I want to emphasize that I do like the site and what you have done here. If you make some usability changes, it will be a premiere photography site.
  
  - I *hate* the photo rolls. They are really hard to use and browse. You cannot, for example, jump to the end of a set of images. You have to keep scrolling right without any indication as to whether there are 10 or 100 images in the set. If the page reloads for any reason, you are back at the beginning and cannot return to the previous position.
  
  Edit - looks like you got rid of the rolls! woo hoo! I actually really like the new photo cascade layout with the variable sized thumbnails. That looks cool and browses well. It is still confusing however, because on the regular port page you have the small square thumbnails and on the cascade page you have the larger variable size images.
  
  
  - the GM header takes up 20% of the page. This is a photo site. The there is a notification bar, a line of large icons and a large font title that take up space before I even begin to see the image. Highlight the photos and make all other functions unobtrusive so that you don't have to do so much vertical scrolling when on an image page.
  
  - I don't like the intermediate little window I have to click through when I want to see someone's port. Going to the port is what I do 99% of the time. If I want to see their profile information, I'll look at that after the pics.
  
  - when you are on someone's profile page and you switch to a different tab, if that page has to reload for any reason, it doesn't remember what tab you were on and opens the first tab, (which again is the profile, not the photos). Example. I go the awards tab and clic on the POTD icon to see what images they won for POYTD. Then I hit "back" in the browser and the page reloads back to tab 1 instead of staying on the awards tab.
  
  - I'd like to be able to browse next/previous on recent uploads so that I could go backwards in history from the newest image to the last one I viewed on the site, but there is no way to do that.
  
  - I like the next/prev buttons that are next to the photog/model/MUA credits. You need th seam thing for Moderators fags or POTD, etc. If I come to an image from the POTD gallery page, I want to see next/prev POTDs as well and there is no way to do that.
  
  - even though I like the next/prev buttons, as I mentioned, when the page refreshes with the new image, I see maybe 20% of it. I have to scroll down to see more, then scroll back up to go next/prev again
  
  - my "sort by" preferences should be remembered when viewing a portfolio
  
  - I personally like the quickness of browsing galleries that use SlimBox or FancyBox (http://www.digitalia.be/demo/slimbox/ - see the imageset demo). While this may now be a trite effect, It is very usable and very quick to navigate between images and you can have links to other information easy enough
  
  - I started writing these suggestions yesterday, went back today to post them in the thread and could not initially find this thread. That should not be so hard given how few discussion groups there are. there seems to be no way to search the discussion groups for a given phrase.
  
  Dave
  

  sedetweiler 10 months ago

  I really like some of your ideas here. I will discuss with chilly. thanks for taking time to give us the feedback!
  

  rjones315 5 months ago

  I'd like to add something to this discussion even though it's an old one. I also realize I'm a newby, but I'm also a web designer (HTML Only) and one of the things I look for is a kiss site. Keep it simple.
  
  So, here are a few suggestions.
  1. Batch upload and processes photos. The ability to upload multiple photos, and add them to the portfolio several files at a time.
  a. As part of the batch processes, make the confirmation questions only necessary 1 time for the group of uploaded images.
  b Same thing for credits - the popup after the upload info is another step.
  2. Make Keywords part of the add to portfolio page
  3. Allow the user to create a new gallery from the upload page - 1 less step and allows for on the fly changes
  

  dsa157 5 months ago

  Here is an example of how site navigation is confusing. I just got an email saying I won an award in one of the contests. I click on the link to my photo and it shows my 2nd place award. If I click on that icon, I get taken to a set of images (in the old photo roll which I hate) that are all 2nd place awards for a bunch of other contests! There is no way for me to get to the contest for which I won 2nd place to see the other winners and others entries. Wouldn't it make more sense that clicking on the icon would take me to the contest not the other 2nd Placers? Either that, or on the page for the second placers, have a caption/link to the contest.
  
• 

  KelleyNymph

  8 months ago · Permalink

  Why are there so many people from WI on here? lol It seems like 95% of the people on here are from there.
  

  sedetweiler 8 months ago

  it started here, and word spread to local studios. it is starting to take root in other cities and people join and tell their friends. Just like MM or OMP, it has to start somewhere :-)
  

  sedetweiler 8 months ago

  we have a good following in Virginia, Atlanta and a few others are starting. Some folks come in, see no one is near them, and then leave. That does not help it spread of course. So, if you like ot feel free to bring in friends!
  
• 

  pixelfaire

  11 months ago · Permalink

  Your target market should be catered to. Opening it up to all forms of photography might mean you are competing with all sites that host images. If users who are on here for modeling oriented photography have to wade through tons of images not related, it may decrease their desire to use the site. However, go where the money is. That is the bottom line, I suppose.
  

  View all 8 comments

  sedetweiler 11 months ago

  Well, do you think it would be a plus or a minus? Remember that OMP and MM allow non model images, but of course they are not the primary theme. Several people have indicated they are good photographers and want to get into model photography and want to join. If we open it up, they could join and then hire models to shoot.
  

  chilly 11 months ago

  It could also mean dozens of cat photos for every model photo. :) I think the good photographers that are interested in model photography should make use of our mentor system (maybe we need to tweak that or highlight it more?). The problem is that many "tools" on the site are specific to model photography, like our roles, metrics, casting calls, and travelers. I'm not necessarily opposed to the other stuff, but I think the key would be making sure the focus of every portfolio on the site is model photography.
  

  michaelmm 11 months ago

  Perhaps if you forced a category before the pictures can be posted so that all cat pictures only go into animals for example. That way it would be easy to avoid the images not related to what we want to see. For me as a Commercial shooter models are a small part of my work, I shoot mostly catalog and advertising, and have to sort through a lot of junk on other sites to find the commercial work I am often looking for as well as finding the people like set stylists, food stylists, make up artists, and others who do this kind of work. I don't mind other kinds of images so long as it's easy to avoid them or better yet indicate in my preference settings that I never want to see certain kinds of beginner shots.
  

  KatieDamronPotter 11 months ago

  you could always allow non-model categories without offering direct hosting capabilities. i've found several sites recently, one in particular that i really like, that allow you to showcase yourself as an artist in the entirety of the spectrum of your work. i feel like the sites that aren't totally model-dominated generally involve a lot less drama and a lot more constructive criticism. however, these sites really seem to solely cater to various types of digital artists and photographers, companies and businesses, but not so much models but they do exists on there but are pretty few and far between. it'd be nice to see how a community started on the solely model-photography end of the spectrum would evolve if it turned into a more general showcase portfolio site. i think it might shake everyone's creativity up a bit, and i agree, the irritating images and portfolios are the really amateur/novice ones so maybe offer portfolios based on approval? market the site as specifically being for people who really take the industry seriously.
  

  Glennslense 8 months ago

  In this economy I would be very careful what you do. As with some other sites I would have free accounts with upgrade(pay) to certain features. As much as the hopes and dreams of this site to be the best, it's still only as good as its member. Unfortunately there are still wanna-be and GWC.
  What's a mother to do.
  

  sedetweiler 8 months ago

  We plan to keep this place clean of GWC. If we find some have gotten into our midst, we need to remove them.
  

  ProjectBoss 8 months ago

  Grouch with camera? I am still here just quiet. :P
  

  McGowan 8 months ago

  Geezer with a camera? Uh oh. Big, big trouble.
  
• 

  chilly

  11 months ago · Permalink

  Now that most of the major site functionality is in place, we're starting to discuss how we should implement a subscription system into the site. The main questions are: 1) how much should we charge and 2) why would people pay? We also don't want to tie in multiple subscription levels, since then gets too complicated for users. Finally, we don't want to tie subscriptions to site functionality (only paying members can create groups, get more portfolio slots, use vault, etc), since we feel our full feature set is useful to all users regardless of what they're able to afford.
  
  So far we have a handful of ideas, but the two we've been discussing most follow.
  
  Option 1: Paying members get automatically bumped to level 10 and receive all of the extra cosmetic bonuses unavailable at lower levels. This includes more attention whoring skins (we have around 100 ready to be added), a donor award (including badge for your portfolio and member preview page), and more microsite skins (http://sedetweiler.greenmartini.com/).
  
  Option 2: Paying members get access to 18+ photos and ads are removed. Members credited on 18+ photos would still be able to view them. This method also allows us to verify that the member is 18+ before displaying the photos to them, which is an on-going legal concern for sites with model photography. Since we can't display ads on 18+ content, this would also result in ads being hidden for all paying members.
  
  As for the payment amount, we've been hovering near the $5/month mark with discounts if it's paid annually. We think this would be competitive compared to other sites which charge $10+/month for their lowest level accounts, especially since we'll have full site functionality and unlimited portfolio size for even free accounts.
  
  Please keep in mind that our goal is to be fair with the pricing, but we need to support the site and pay for development time as well. We also want to use some of the money as a prize for contests.
  

  View all 61 comments

  chilly 11 months ago

  Please let us know what you think... option 1 or option 2 (or something else), and how much should the subscription be?
  

  pixelfaire 11 months ago

  I think the major question is always "why" would someone opt to pay for the site. There needs to be a value that is clear and probably not commonly available on other sites. Promoting collaboration and making connections, microsites, ability to block - total block as well as unwanted communication, freedom of expression combined with image rating system....does this site do it as well or better than other sites. You are competing with FB and MM. Take the best of both worlds and sell it.
  

  chilly 11 months ago

  There's another aspect, though, which is growing the number of all users on the site. If we restrict too much functionality, which we feel those other sites do, then we face not growing the number of unpaid members on the site which is what makes it worthwhile for the paid members as well.
  
  I think once block is implemented fully we'll exceed the functionality of MM and OMP in pretty much every way. If we're lacking somehow we'd love to hear about that as well so we can improve. :) Facebook is an entirely different animal since it doesn't include some of the search tools and photo-centric tools that are necessary for the model photography industry, although its popularity automatically makes it the best tool for pure networking.
  
  Thank you for the feedback. It's greatly appreciated. :)
  

  ProjectBoss 11 months ago

  :( I can't pay I'm useless in this convo.
  

  ProjectBoss 11 months ago

  Could always try to include a zivity type of aspect to the site making worth wise and passively rewarding good work/up fan bases/exposure.
  

  chilly 11 months ago

  That's the goal of the level system. You'll get the cosmetic features for being an active member of our community. The debate is over whether we should allow people to get those cosmetic features by paying as well. Looking at this another way, since you aren't able to pay... would you be upset/disenfranchised if you couldn't view 18+ photos without having to pay? How would you feel about people not being able to view your 18+ photos without paying themselves? If it would piss a lot of people off, we're unlikely to do it. However, if it's not that big of a deal to people then we probably would. Or we might find some combination of the two options.
  

  ProjectBoss 11 months ago

  Well no matter what personally can't nor want to pay to display/showcase my work online with so many other options out there. Paying does help the site sure with costs/maintenance and all that jazz however I'd most likely make/attempt to make several accounts to avoid paying. I'm cheap cause I'm poor.
  

  legioXstudios 11 months ago

  I think there are some "user-friendly" things that need to make the site less choppy and overly time consuming that needs to be tuned before Charging would be accepted by the general population. Also My thoughts for the members who have signed up to the site and have supported it up until the day you start the subscription should have free lifetime membership as any other site has done. If you start charging existing members we are going to loose a bulk of the few we have now. Subscription going forward is cool and expected!! I have had feed back from alot of members and have relayed them in the group discussions but I feel they will not return to the site until some of the functionality is honed. On Subscription Levels I think there should be three 1: People who were here from the beginning (until subscription starts) 2: Free Membership with options to be earned 3: Paid Membership which puts members at the highest level equal to the founding members. So I like your option that has this.
  

  RickDavenport 11 months ago

  I wouldn't mind paying if there's a vetting process to keep out the flakes, which is why I left OMP. On the other hand I have a free MM account, a free FB account and my own website ($170/yr). Why would I want to pay for another site? Give a reason to pay.
  

  sedetweiler 11 months ago

  I guess that is the primary challenge. We gatekeep pretty well and delete the accounts of those just sitting idle. In fact, the level system will help us spot those people much easier now. I guess I would ask what things do you feel would provide additional value?
  

  chilly 11 months ago

  Rick, one of the things we're offering is a microsite (http://rickdavenport.greenmartini.com/) that we think can compete with regular websites as the primary site for model and photographer's portfolios. This will be even more true as we add more skins and layout options in the future. If our microsites can replace a full website at $50/yr, that would be a $120/yr savings in your case.
  
  We love getting feedback on the parts of our system that people don't like, too. It helps us understand what we're doing wrong and hopefully allow us to change it to please as many people as possible. It benefits you, the members, by giving you the tools and features you actually want and it helps us because it results in a better product and more visibility.
  

  sedetweiler 11 months ago

  One of the things I like about greenmartini vs any other site out there is that someone can actually contact you though here to communicate or book a shoot. If someone is not a member, the can still send you a message. I think that goes a long way to helping people locate talent and actually book a shoot. We did this mostly for the mentoring areas, as someone with no portfolio would be unable to get past gatekeeping. This way they can communicate with models and photographers to actually build a port.
  

  RickDavenport 11 months ago

  There are some "growing pains" issues I'd like to discuss but I'll take it to the proper discussion board. Personally I believe this site has to grow a lot more before you start charging for "pro" services. I "searched" for models in my area - 4 - within 100 miles the rest being over 250 miles away. The same search on MM (250mi) revealed 1335. Only about 500 of those updated in the last 90 days. Please don't get me wrong. This is a cool site with quality models and photographers. I'm just sayin'...
  

  sedetweiler 11 months ago

  yea, we do have some growing to do. most of the issue was getting things built, and we are mostly done with Phase I. As people find what we have built, I hope they will invite others. the problem is that MM has several years of a head start. I also had a member here who left because "no one was in his area", but he didn't even wait around. guess it takes a special person to help a site grow and since we started in Milwaukee, it grows from there outward naturally.
  

  chilly 11 months ago

  We agree. We've heard from other people that they're afraid of bait and switch tactics, though. We don't want to lure people in with free and then suddenly drop the bomb that all they've experienced is a pro feature available for $5/month. That's another reason we're trying to avoid tying features to payments.
  
  We do have some ideas for growing the site including some paid contests. Up until now our goal has been to simply try being the best site from a functionality perspective and hope that's enough to draw people in, but without assistance from our members growing will be a very difficult prospect.
  

  sedetweiler 11 months ago

  that is why I like the level donation approach. If someone wants to be level 10 and get all the neat skins for things like attention whoring (as well as recognition for helping the site directly) they can donate to the site. Or if they are broke or spending money on beer, they can work their way to level 10 by networking and being an active member. For those that don't care, they can continue to use the site like everyone else but at least it will be easy to spot those that really network well and not just upload and walk away for a few months. Regardless, we will probably put advertising back in place for those under level 10.
  
  great discussion by the way, I like the feedback and ideas. Keep them coming!
  

  legioXstudios 11 months ago

  I just realized the point system will take years to go up through the ranks. We as users only control 4 items (points) and the highest we can control is 3Pts so even if someone is commenting and participating anything above level 6 is going to take a long long time and yes we can HOPE we win a contest and such that is still a lottery of peers and such.
  

  sedetweiler 11 months ago

  100 points for a referral actually.
  

  legioXstudios 11 months ago

  which we dont control. I have referred tons more to the site that have joined but im not credited but that isnt my point. even with getting the occasional new recruit its still going to take a long time to climb the ladder
  

  legioXstudios 11 months ago

  if we refer them and they join using another email address when signing up.... Theres the lack of control etc
  

  RickDavenport 11 months ago

  Maybe the admins can add a question when a new member joins, "How did you hear about GM?" or "Were you referred by a current member?"
  

  sedetweiler 11 months ago

  You can also refer people by putting the ref argument in ANY link to this site. For example, if you posted on facebook that you wanted people to check out the contests, and your member number was 2, the link would look like this: http://greenmartini.com/awards?ref=2
  
  In that case, if that person joined in the next three months (I think that is the cookie duration), then user 2 would get the referral. Also only the most recent one counts as well, so if they click on an image a month later with a ?ref=2 on it, that person would be the new referrer. Again, this works for any link to gm as long as you add the ?ref=2 (of course using your member number) in the URL.
  

  imuhstrangewon 11 months ago

  woah, this is alot of reading. I'll just pop on here and say the only thing that really came to mind when reading the options. I myself, at this time, cannot pay a monthly fee for anything extra right now. If i were a non paying member and could not view 18+ photos, that would probably bother me a bit, knowing I am a legitimate member of the site, who does comment and network when i have time to. I'm a broke ass, so paying for a site when I already pay for internet, and clothes and such to do photoshoots in the first place doesn't sound good for me. But I'm only one person. :)
  

  sedetweiler 11 months ago

  I am leaning toward the option where people can work their way to level 10, or just pay for it if they are lazy. that way those that really want to network and don't have the cash, don't suffer at all. those that do donate or work their way up will be recognized. I think that works for everyone and does not take away from he experience anyone has on the site. I do plan to offer cash contests soon, but people would need to be level 3 or greater for those. since level 3 is super easy to obtain with a tiny bit of effort, it would reward those that do comment and network rather than those that just choose to browse or upload and leave.
  

  ProjectBoss 11 months ago

  In all seriousness there is far too little activity on this site as it is to consider placing any type of payment on it. I'm online a lot people look at a lot of photos and never give feedback/wack jobs. The set up of the site is good needs a little tweaking here and there but it's hard enough to bring people to this site.
  

  sedetweiler 11 months ago

  some new tools are coming soon to help get people to the site. solving the looking but no commenting problem is forever a problem.
  

  KatieDamronPotter 11 months ago

  bringing in a variety of portfolio options could be the kick the site needs to become a more advanced artist/paid membership type site - something to think about :)
  

  sedetweiler 11 months ago

  what kind of options Katie?
  

  McGowan 11 months ago

  If you have to pay to see 18+ pictures, you're dooming this place to be vacant forever. You don't have to pay to see them anywhere else. Perhaps a paying member could get a url that would work pretty much as if it was a personal Website ... such as the sedetweller.greenmartini.com ... while non-paying have to stick with the number system. Items like having your own url make it easier to find ... and can help people expand their reach.
  
  The one thing nobody seems to do very well is outreach. If you're paying money, you ought to be able to set your portfolio to public or private, and thus send people to the site to see the results of a shoot or some such. Maybe make individual portfolios private for that purpose.
  
  At that point, the site is providing a service that would normally be handled on a person's own site. It would have a benefit to the user, but would also benefit you guys by drawing in people who wouldn't normally find the place.
  
  There are plenty of similar outreach options that would help the site, make it worth paying for and also help our customers.
  

  chilly 11 months ago

  Except the custom URL thing is already provided by us for free. :) I think the main thing people should realize is that our features go beyond other sites for even free members and we don't want to suddenly charge for those things. We want our site to be the obvious choice for people to put their primary portfolio, and I think the main thing holding us back right now is the base number of users.
  

  IloominImages 11 months ago

  I think you have to work out more functionality issues first before even thinking of charging people. I find this site hard to use hence I don't visit it a lot compare to MM.
  

  sedetweiler 10 months ago

  is it hard to use because you don't use it a lot, or because it isn't like mm, or both?
  

  IloominImages 10 months ago

  Neither. When it's hard to use then I don't use it a lot. Not because it's the other way around. MM isn't perfect either but I do like how you can browse through all the pictures in someone's portfolio easily by the previous and next links.
  

  chilly 10 months ago

  You can do that here as well. In the credits section you can simply click the green arrows next to that person to continue through their pictures. It's a little different than MM's since we have multiple people credited on most photos, but it's the exact same functionality if you keep clicking that one person's green arrows.
  

  chilly 10 months ago

  Just added another solution as well. If you hover over a photo in someone's portfolio or in the cascade, it'll show a link icon in the top right of the photo. Click that and it'll open in a new window or tab instead of the current one.
  

  McGowan 10 months ago

  Your features don't go beyond MuseCube, where you can get your own url that doesn't say anything about MuseCube. You say the problem is too small a base of users. Just the idea of charging is going to put a lid on that.
  
  Nobody has figured out the outreach very well. I'm not sure how it should best be done, but it's the missing element for all these model/photographer networking sites.
  
  What we all need is clients. Figure out a way to help people get clients, and you'll have something worth a membership fee.
  

  IloominImages 10 months ago

  I finally realized what those green arrows are for last week. They are so tiny that it takes extra effort to place my cursor on the correct one. I'd prefer a bigger icon and also placed them next to the picture we're currently viewing.
  
  McGowan brought up a good point. One of the reason I don't use this site as much (same goes for MM) is because I'm not getting any paying clients. And some models wants to be paid too which is a lose-lose situation. I'm bringing this point up not hoping you can do anything about it but just making a point that that's how it goes.
  

  sedetweiler 10 months ago

  actually this site does generate a url (which you can then redirect to a custom url). @mcgowan , yours is http://mcgowan.greenmartini.com
  

  McGowan 10 months ago

  My point was that instead of the urls now, we would have numbers for free accounts and xxx.greenmartini.com for paid. Or, at a higher level, to offer whatever.com as a "real" site that's hosted here.
  
  It's all about outreach, and making the place worthy of being able to charge money, and to be able to have levels of service on here.
  
  As for skating through pictures, the arrows are helpful, but only to a limited extent. What would be FAR, FAR better is the ability to return to the thumbnails page without using the back button. If you've gone a few pictures in, you're going to be stuck with going back around the horn to find the thumbnails page. At least on MM in the new configuration AND the old, there's a clear link where you can go back to the thumbs.
  

  sedetweiler 10 months ago

  chilly, maybe we can track back to the image number in the cascade and load that page and scroll down to it?
  

  McGowan 10 months ago

  OK, either I communicate really, really poorly or you guys are geeking out on me. I'm not looking to get back to an image, but to get back to the thumbnail page. We usually decide we want to look at a picture larger by looking at the thumbnails. All of them, not just the next one or the previous one. All we need is a link on the photo display page that takes you directly back to a person's thumbnails. It could be next to the credit info at the left.
  

  sedetweiler 10 months ago

  chilly did add an icon when you hover over the image in the cascade that allows it to open in another window. that should help in the mean time. maybe we can do the same for thumbnails.
  

  McGowan 10 months ago

  In what cascade? Do you call the thumbnails a cascade?
  

  McGowan 10 months ago

  Also, forgive me but y'all are using tinier and tinier icons. I'm old. I can't tell what in the hell most of that stuff is. Pastels and itty-bitty stuff just doesn't work for us.
  

  sedetweiler 10 months ago

  sorry, the cascade is where the medium sized images are all crammed into the page. like this: http://www.greenmartini.com/cascade/newest you will see the link for the new window if you hover over the image
  

  McGowan 10 months ago

  Welllllll..... Seems to me you ought to use jargon that matches the name of the page, so us idiots can follow the conversation. Please?
  

  sedetweiler 10 months ago

  sorry.
  

  McGowan 10 months ago

  Y'all are just so used to working internally, it's easy to forget that the rest of us aren't inside, too.
  

  sedetweiler 10 months ago

  i will work on some videos to help explain things better.
  

  McGowan 10 months ago

  OK, I just figured out the little film strip is see all and gets you to the "cascade" instead of the thumbnails. Why did y'all work so hard to offer two ways to do the same thing, only for one to be bigger thumbnails?
  
  Anyway, I thought the film strip would be that strip of pictures that you had out of the "overlay." But now I see that you changed that from a strip to the entire page. It's hard to keep up.
  

  sedetweiler 10 months ago

  no one liked the film strip and it didn't work on an ipad or iphone. this is something everyone seems to prefer now.
  

  chilly 10 months ago

  People complained about the functionality of the photo roll, which is what used to be linked from the member preview overlay. So I switched that to the photo cascade method which has been a resounding success so far. It has been called the "photo cascade" in all of the links to it ever since, so it's not an internal vs external thing with the terminology.
  
  It sounds like you want the ability to go back to a specific spot within the portfolio itself once you're done viewing a photo. I might be able to figure something out with that, but it'll be far easier to just add the "New Window" link on those portfolio thumbnails. That will also keep it consistent throughout the site, which is important. I think eventually all photo thumbnails will include that functionality.
  

  McGowan 10 months ago

  Yeah, I want to be able to get back to the portfolio/photos page after leaving that page to look at a photo.
  

  sedetweiler 10 months ago

  oh, something new you might also like is when you edit a photo's properties (using the edit icon), or when you upload. you can now specify a place to purchase the image. just put in the full url to the site where they can buy it.
  

  chilly 10 months ago

  "My point was that instead of the urls now, we would have numbers for free accounts and xxx.greenmartini.com for paid. Or, at a higher level, to offer whatever.com as a "real" site that's hosted here. It's all about outreach, and making the place worthy of being able to charge money, and to be able to have levels of service on here."
  
  My argument against this is that we provide the full functionality you're describing for even free accounts. I think people would get even more upset if we start changing our current free features to paid features... it'd be classic bait and switch. I prefer having our site's features completely blow away everything else out there for free members and then offer just a *bit* more for the paid people. That way there's no reason someone shouldn't join the site... their internal debate will just be over whether or not to become a paid member.
  
  Additionally, we're planning more microsite skins and possibly even the option for people to use purchased designs from templatemonster.com. We want it to be capable of becoming someone's full websites, which is why I'm often asking for people for a list of features they think should be added to it. :)
  

  ProjectBoss 10 months ago

  Whyo whyo whyo do I keep getting alerts from this page?
  

  chilly 10 months ago

  Because you commented on this thread. Hmm... except it doesn't seem to be using your control panel settings properly. I'll look into that.
  

  ProjectBoss 10 months ago

  Correct... I have everything unchecked. I like finding bugs for numbers to fix.
  

  chilly 10 months ago

  Think it's fixed now. Let me know.
  

  McGowan 10 months ago

  @Chilly ... Lots of people have "legacy" accounts, where people who had one feature or another that is now a paid feature will continue to work for those who joined early. I don't think things like that are impossible. You just have to introduce distinctions when you start charging.
  

  FusionPhoto 8 months ago

  The problem I see with charging anything at this point is your somewhat limited area that this site covers right now. I have tried many times to refer people from my local area to the site, but they have a look at the member base and decide it would not do them any good because nobody is in the area for them to network with (and the site is currently free). I have stayed and participated in hopes that the site would grow into my area, and I think it will eventually. All this has to be kept in mind before starting to charge, because if people will not join for free, you will have even a harder time getting the site to grow after starting to charge for the service.
  
  just my $0.02 in for food for thought.
  
  Robert
  
• 

  RyalDeveau

  8 months ago · Permalink

  I am a amature photographer in school for digital photography and i was reciently asked to do a shoot where i would be getting paid but i have a few questions, is there someone that can give me a hand with my questions?
  I was recently asked to do some family portrates this comming fall. the photos will be outdoors, i will be doing the editing and retouching of the photos myself and burning them to a CD, no prints. This is my first paying gig and I have no idea what to charge them. and im not sure what questions to ask them prior to the shoot. everything i have done sofar has been just a few solo shoots for my portfolio and some shoots for school. any help with this would be great.
  

  sedetweiler 8 months ago

  typically the market would probably work with something between $30 and $100 per hour. I would set a minimum of hours and see how that floats. That is my 2 cents, but I don't tend to take on this type of work though.
  
• 

  sedetweiler

  11 months ago · Permalink

  We are considering opening the site to all types of photography, while still keeping the model photography at the core. MM, OMP and others allow a photographer to upload images of any type, where we have been pretty stern on model images only. Anyone have a strong opinion one way or the other? I think it would help with traffic, comments, and give the models more photographers with which to work. Note that we would still require good photography for gatekeeping, and even higher standards if they don't have model shots to present. Thoughts?
  

  View all 22 comments

  nickolasnikolic 10 months ago

  I want this to happen. Worst case scenario is you get excellent food photographers that network on the site. My work is primarily photojournalist and would benefit from the additional community.
  

  CheerleaderVideo 10 months ago

  I might be new here but I think keeping it strictly for model photography is good. If I'm a nature photographer let's say, I can display my wares on OMP. And if you'll notice, on OMP, the guys (and gals) that do photography other than model work get very few views. Most people want to
  see other (mostly attractive) people. .....I had taken a really nice bald eagle photo and put it up on OMP for quite some time, and nobody looked at it, they wanted to see the pretty girls. I don't blame 'em.
  

  McGowan 10 months ago

  If, as in the discussion above, you're thinking about providing skins and actually being a Web site service, you probably need to be open to most anything legal.
  

  legioXstudios 10 months ago

  Maybe a Mirror site for other disciplines of photography That way you keep your model/photographer integrity and have a completely separate site for the others keeping your core goal of green martini BUT adding a feature that would be a financial draw. Although I do plenty of work with models and events I also Have alot of Landscape/City/architectural work and art that I would love to display. as well. Ive searched for sites that act like the model/photographer sites but focus on the NON Modeling aspect and they are very rare. This may be a marketable opportunity as well as expanding site usage and membership. BUT thats just me :)
  

  ProjectBoss 10 months ago

  Gatekeeping is a must even with new models/photogs/whatevers with low quality images. Only way to improve is to well improve. All in all I think GM should offer services and features others lack in. There are no matter what cliques and what not but the fact remains there's talent out there either looking for help, waiting for the attention, or just screwin around. Non-model related content should also have it's place here as well. Even with the two combined more images will be created, shared, and really I feel people should critique more either to their real feelings/standards but no image is perfection nor will there ever be.
  

  sedetweiler 10 months ago

  I am thinking that maybe we allow a person to select a general category for the images they are uploading and then we can perhaps give users preferences for the categories they like to see with options to see all of the work from a person. it would require that extra step, but in the end it might make everyone happy. just brainstorming here.
  

  ProjectBoss 10 months ago

  However I'd like to have my own personal button that is a toilet logo so I can flush some things.... that's my stormingbrain X_x
  

  legioXstudios 10 months ago

  Categories for photos would be great on upload. The viewer can click on whatever they want to view anyway. As for toilets:: One mans toilet is another mans throne !!! HAHA
  

  sedetweiler 10 months ago

  we could also create subdivisions like headshots, artistic nudes, and so on. but at some points it gets complex enough no one uses it.
  

  legioXstudios 10 months ago

  I have noticed though most people create galleries to cover this subject. So Maybe categories are a bit overkill Just allowing different content would be rock and let the photographer model etc create or sort and put themselves forward as the would like in their own way.
  

  ProjectBoss 10 months ago

  Just set it up compcard categories and so on but don't forget the fetish peeps they always have different categories... or so I've known or something. Biggest issue with the site period is it is far too Wisconsinized. Something special must be done to lure everyone here. I say we give out animal balloons.
  

  sedetweiler 10 months ago

  all sites have to start somewhere and if people like it they will invite others. it is just a simple matter of that happening magically. :-)
  

  ProjectBoss 10 months ago

  Magic is fun
  

  chilly 10 months ago

  Now that we've gotten good feedback I'll give my opinion. :) I'm personally opposed to opening up the site to other types of photography, mainly because all of our tools are specific to model photography. For example, crediting doesn't make any sense, advanced member search doesn't make sense, our specialties don't make sense, half the stuff on our critiques don't make sense, our portfolio metrics for photographers don't make sense (and the rest of the role stuff is even more pointless), etc.
  
  There's a number of changes we could make to these things to force them to work, but will that really be beneficial? How many photographers out there that focus on something other than model photography rely on something other than Flickr or their own website for their portfolio? When the primary goal of the site is to allow networking between models, photographers, makeup artists, etc then why would a photographer join when they have no need for networking with other people? It would be just about having another place to display their photos, which seems kind of pointless.
  

  legioXstudios 10 months ago

  Point taken Chilly. but the reason most dont have a site like this is because a product like this doesn't exist for many of the other styles. I for one have been searching for the tools and benefits of networking to coexist with my landscapes and other art. BUT a photographer should be able to showcase his talents where he has a portfolio to show off his/her work. I see your point though. Im not worried about it much anymore because I found a site recently that is close to what I was looking for and there is always OMP which allows us to show all our works etc. Photographers have more than just models to be proud of. I personally show models my work of all types to show diversity etc. But this is also just "My" opinion
  

  Glennslense 9 months ago

  In opening up to all types of photography you open it up to all levels of photographers. One thing I like about this site is you have members that are high caliber photographers. One thing I don't like about MM is that you have some real crap shown there by "photographers" that simply own a camera. I like the company I keep on this site. You are only as strong as your weakest link, lets keep this link strong.
  

  sedetweiler 9 months ago

  oh, we have own own share of people that are still beginners. We are working on some additional grading systems to help them identify issues and grow in the hobby.
  

  faith 9 months ago

  (I don't feel like we need a grading system. If I want to grow, I'll ask for help)
  
  I don't know why you would want to open it up to other photographers, to what end really. It won't help the models because other photographer are not going to shoot models because they are on this site.
  

  sedetweiler 9 months ago

  yea, i am kinda leaning against opening it up now. for a while i was thinking it would be helpful.
  

  lightworks414 9 months ago

  Keep it models. Shoemaker stick to thy last. Can't be everything for everybody.
  

  legioXstudios 9 months ago

  totally understand. If you are a great landscape photographer or a great product photographer you don't deserve or belong on this site with real photographers like the ones who shoot models... Totally agree!! ROCK ON!!!
  

  RyalDeveau 8 months ago

  I would like to beable to see some family style photography along with the model photography on the site. but things like land scapes not so much.
  
• 

  NVT_Photography

  10 months ago · Permalink

  I wanted to share a link with any photographers out there that are like me - trying to get better everyday. When I'm here, I look around here and see some SERIOUS talent, and at times, it's a little intimidating.
  
  BUT - one of the projects I have been having a lot of success with is here:
  
  http://bit.ly/qXyYoJ
  
  I've found when I focus on refining my skills on the little stuff - the bigger stuff is starting to look better. :-) Hope this helps you as much as it helps me.
  
• 

  DJ-Watts

  10 months ago · Permalink

  How do I turn off the repetitive notices in the upper left hand corner. Such as "________ is now follwoing you". I x it out and it comes back
  

  View all 5 comments

  chilly 10 months ago

  Sounds like a bug that was affecting @sedetweiler as well. Logging completely out and then back in might fix it. If not I can try figuring out a permanent bug fix.
  

  DJ-Watts 10 months ago

  i seem to have to log out each time it happens and that is sucking
  

  DJ-Watts 10 months ago

  And it isn't fixing the problem
  

  chilly 10 months ago

  One method that is guaranteed to work is to clear your GM cookies and log back in. Obviously not ideal, but I can't get around to fixing the actual root cause of the problem right now.
  

  sedetweiler 10 months ago

  I cleared my cookies for gm and it fixed it.
  
• 

  McGowan

  10 months ago · Permalink

  I'm just wondering if this "levels" thing isn't misleading. To attain higher levels, you have to participate in certain activities on the site. But some people don't like those activities, so they won't be advancing. Right now, it looks kind of like a Level 4 person is superior in some way to a Level 1 or a Level 0, whereas, it's really just a measure of activity on the site ... and the specific types of activity to boot.
  
  If you make it clear ON THE PAGE that the levels don't represent a person's talent, ability, timeliness or worth in any way except in the GM community, it might be OK. But I've seen some really good photographers who were Level 1 and others who were only so-so at much higher levels.
  
  Just the way it's displayed makes it seem damn near insulting to people who have just joined, whether they're incredible talents or not.
  
  This, to me, seems another way in which GM is far too inward-looking.
  

  View all 6 comments

  chilly 10 months ago

  We'll keep your opinion about this in mind as we continue to get feedback on it. We've actually had a decent number of people that have given us positive feedback on the level system. I think anyone that clicks on the level link or checks their own level will understand immediately that it's not a reflection of ability, but rather of site participation. We're actually mirroring functionality from a wide variety of games, where people level based on their participation. However, in those it's not a reflection of their ability either. A LOT of usability testing and focus group testing has gone into every aspect of those games, so I'm really not uncomfortable with people misinterpreting them here.
  
  To be clear, I am skeptical about the level system and doubt it will work as intended, but based on the positive feedback we've gotten so far I'm fine just waiting and seeing for a while. I think it would take a number of complaints to get us to remove the functionality, but I can definitely see a few ways we can clarify things for new members anyway.
  

  McGowan 10 months ago

  Yeah, well mirroring gaming activity in this business just isn't sane. As I've said time and again, I have hopes that this site could one day work as a reasonable outreach vehicle. But if that's the kind of mindset, it's doomed to be a bunch of self-congratulatory nonsense.
  
  Just because something is fun or nifty just makes it fun or nifty. If the same amount of thought went into fulfilling some of the dreams you guys have, we wouldn't go down these little paths to cuteness.
  
  I'm truly glad you got rid of the god-awful sliders (except on the awards pages), but there's got to be another way besides assigning humungous levels badges to everyone.
  
  How about something I saw on the old Model Launch before it was (a) hacked and (b) sold.
  
  They had little charts that showed level of site activity. You'd see whether a person got involved in chat, entered contests or contributed on the forums. You'd see how recently the person uploaded images. Something like that would be helpful, reasonable and entirely doable.
  
  Instead of saying somebody is a "level 6" or a "level 0," you'd just say his or her activity in certain areas was higher or lower. Right now, somebody has to have at least a minor in math to figure out what you're doing. The graphs would be straightforward, clean and meaningful.
  
  Perhaps a model is interested in winning a contest. She would be a lot more likely to shoot with someone who enters contests than somebody who doesn't.
  
  Anyway, it seems to me that one person bringing up a potential problem should be enough for people to look at it and determine whether it makes sense. If it does, why wait for more people to jump in before you make an improvement?
  

  chilly 10 months ago

  One person's opinion is enough, but not when it directly counters feedback we've gotten that says the exact opposite. And despite your opinion, aspects of gaming have been successfully applied in many industries. It's not insane to take something that works well in other applications, it's stupid not to. We're going to wait and see on this. If you don't like the functionality it's VERY easy to ignore.
  

  sedetweiler 10 months ago

  we have added so many other things, like the ability to directly contact members and so on. give us a chance to work on this before you judge it so harshly.
  

  McGowan 10 months ago

  Not judging what you've done. It's a lot. But what you say about other things. At times it shows a kind of insulated thought process. When you do look outward, you guys do some great stuff.
  

  McGowan 10 months ago

  The problem, Chilly, is that it doesn't matter whether I ignore it or not, you're pinning a "badge" of sorts on people that has nothing to do with their ability as model or photographer or MUA or anything. If this site were a game, where the object was to win ON THE SITE, levels would make sense. But to my mind, the site only works when the connections made here generate real-life photo shoots, publications, art shows or anything at all tangible. But that isn't measured at all.
  
  Of course, if you want this place to be a game where the idea is to advance levels here, then I guess I'm just out of luck. As sedetweiler said, y'all have done lots of good stuff. It's just that my idea of a successful networking site is one that reaches out, not one that rewards people for sticking around.
  
• 

  RickDavenport

  11 months ago · Permalink

  "Explore Hidden Gems" I like this as I can scroll through probably every image on GM, but if I click one one I like and go back to "EHG's" I'm starting over with a whole new set of images or the same images in a random order. Very frustrating when the image I clicked on was right next to the one I wanted to see next. I also noticed the more I scrolled I saw the same image two, three and even four times.
  

  chilly 11 months ago

  Due to the way our photo cascade is programmed, we can't deep link to an existing image in it. I'd suggest middle clicking to open in a new tab so it doesn't browse away from the position in the cascade in the current tab.
  
  As for the duplicates, I'll put that on my to-do list. I understand why it's happening, but I need to figure out a way around it.
  
  Thanks for the feedback!
  

  IloominImages 11 months ago

  I agree with Rick. I should be able to click previous or next to browse through the portfolio images once I click on an image. When I go back I loose my place and it's a hassle. The difficulty in navigation through the images is one thing that kept me from visiting this site more often. And the other thing is I can't cancel my account where in MM there is an option. I feel like I'm trap in a roach motel.
  
• 

  MichaelH

  11 months ago · Permalink

  Hey I miss this site.. Whats up models, photographers, and etc.
  

  sedetweiler 11 months ago

  We missed you too! You won a POTD not to long ago and I wondered if you were ok :-)
  
  All joking aside we did have our first member die a few weeks ago. Was weird to have to remove an account for such a sad reason.
  

Everyone. :)